Avi Melamed: Okay, it's 1 0, 5. We want to start to be respectful of people's time. As I said today, we're talking about Jordan, our guest education educator, Mr. Muda Zaharan. Shortly. Of course, I will introduce Zahan, Mr. Zawan in the end of my short framing.
Avi Melamed: So talking about Jordan once again, as always, this is the major id features of the Hashemite kingdom of Jordan, the formal name of Jordan, a population of 11 million people, as you could see overwhelmingly. We are looking at a Sunni Muslim population with some very small minority Christians, Druze, and others.
Avi Melamed: Once again, all along our program we are going to the starting point about a hundred years ago.
Avi Melamed: with the following, the story of the downfall of the Turkish Ottoman Empire, the Sykes-picot agreement. We talked about it quite often in our program. The division of the mandate system following Ww. One
Avi Melamed: that basically granted Major Western powers, the conqueror, the victorious of the war, granted them the mandate to rule large areas that used to be part of the Turkish Ottoman Empire, and to prepare actually the people
Avi Melamed: of this region to be able to rule themselves. We talked about it in different perspectives. We talked about it in the context of the story of Syria, in the context of the story of the Israeli-palestinian conflict.
Avi Melamed: we so we'll shortly see that it also has been very relevant in the context of the what is going to become known as the Hashemite kingdom of Jordan.
Avi Melamed: so shortly after the Ww. One is part of this whole reconfiguration of the region. You may remember that we talked about the concept of the great Syria and the whole issue of the Arab kingdom of Syria under the rule of the Hashemite dynasty, reminding you the Hashemite dynasty. Originally from the Arab Peninsula.
Avi Melamed: A very distinguished dynasty goes all the way back for dozens of the generation to the grandfather of Prophet Muhammad, the founder of Islam. His grandfather was
Avi Melamed: Hashem, and here the source of the name, the Hashemite dynasty. The Hashemite dynasty originated in what is called the Arab, the Arabian Peninsula, and in in
Avi Melamed: during the 1st World War, and following the head of this dynasty, the Sharif Hussein, a very noble promenade leader in the Arabian peninsula has been also engaged in a power struggle with other dynasty in the Arabian Peninsula. The Ibn Saud dynasty that in the end of the day it's going to result in the triumph of the Ibn Saud dynasty and rising to power.
Avi Melamed: So as part of this whole development that happens towards the end of Ww. One.
Avi Melamed: the Sykes-picot agreement, the involvement of the Hashemite dynasty on the side of the British
Avi Melamed: In the war against Turkey, and in return actually the the the British basically
Avi Melamed: promised sort of speaking the Hashemite dynasty that they will be a key component player in the reconfiguration of the region following the downfall of the Turkish Ottoman Empire, and so already, before the formal downfall of the Turkish Ottoman Empire in 1924. Already before that there has been these ideas of creating what is called
Avi Melamed: the Arab kingdom of Syria. Under the rule of the Hashimite Monarchy, you could see the map in front of you. You could see the Logos and the flags, and, as you may recall, when we talked about Syria, we said that there was even a short period of time where this
Avi Melamed: entity was kind of like, established with a very short reign of King Faisal, the 3rd son of the Sharif Hussein, from Mecca. But his rule in France came in Syria was very quickly ousted by the French, and basically the story of the Hashemite. The great Hashemite Arab kingdom of Syria came came to an end
Avi Melamed: parallel to that.
Avi Melamed: The British are doing something additional. They are basically
Avi Melamed: detaching the area that is going to be known or known by the name of transjordan. And actually that was supposed to be part of this large one unit, almost largely one unit ruled by the British. Basically, the British are establishing what is going to become known as the Emirate of Transjordan. They are doing that in the beginning of the 19 twenties and basically positioning King Abdullah.
Avi Melamed: other son of Sheriff Hussein. From Mecca. They position him as the Emir of this trans Jordan emirate.
Avi Melamed: Here you see in front of you a couple of milestones. In the contemporary history of Jordan that begins with the story of Transjordan, the emirate of trans-jordan under the rule of King Abdullah in 1946 Jordan basically becomes formally independent. The British rule actually comes to an end. And now the trans-jordan Tj. Is now changed its name into the Hashemite kingdom of Jordan.
Avi Melamed: ruled by King, now King Abdullah bin Hussein. Formerly he was titled as Emir
Avi Melamed: King Abdullah bin Hussein is assassinated, was assassinated in 1951 in an Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem that was under the rule of the Jordanian. Back then, because, as you may recall, in following the war in 1948. Between Israel and Arab States
Avi Melamed: and Palestinian groups. Jordan occupied the west bank
Avi Melamed: and annex the west bank to Jordan, and one of the most significant, I would say, crown jewel of the Hashemite kingdom is the control over the Al-aqsa mosque, the Haram Sharif. The temperament compound in Jerusalem.
Avi Melamed: in the old city of Jerusalem, Haram, Sharif, Al. Aqsa Mosque. This is the 3rd holiest side of the Muslim world after Mecca and Medina, and and the Hashemite dynasty basically was was crowned as the
Avi Melamed: custodian sort of speaking of this holy 3rd holy site of the Muslim in in Jerusalem, Al-aqsa mosque in Haram, Sharif.
Avi Melamed: King Abdullah is was assassinated
Avi Melamed: by Palestinian in 1951 in the mosque, when he was praying on the Friday prayers in the mosque, and for a short period of time the rule is now at the hand of King Talal.
Avi Melamed: but his rule was very short. King Talal has to resign over apparently issues of mental health, and the next king in Jordan is going to become King Hussein Ben Talal. King Hussein is going to rule Jordan 1st as an heir, because he was very young when he basically.
Avi Melamed: it was become a king. Until 1999
Avi Melamed: During that period of time of King Hussein of Jordan there has been a couple of significant milestones. In the story of the Jordanian Hashemite Monarchy. One significant milestone is in 1967. King Hussein, back then, is joining to Egypt and Syria, launching the war that is called the 6 Days War, or 1967 war that war ends up with Jordan, losing
Avi Melamed: the west bank and also losing its control on the eastern part of Jerusalem, and including the Haram Sharif Al Aqsa. Mosque.
Avi Melamed: Following that development, one of the things that happened as a domino effect was that Palestinian armed militias basically settled in Jordan and gradually turned Jordan more and more into a stage. From within. They launched attacks on Israel that resulted in a continuation of hostilities between Israel and the Palestinians, and Israel and Jordanian forces.
Avi Melamed: and in course of time.
Avi Melamed: in parallel to that, there has been a growing process of Palestinian militias inside Jordan, gaining power and momentum to the point. This building tension within Jordan resulted in a direct military collision between the Hashemite monarchy on the one hand and the Palestinian armed militias in Jordan. On the other hand, this armed collision.
Avi Melamed: rather known also as Black September in 1970, ends up with the crashing of the Palestinian militia's presence in Jordan. The triumph of the Hashemite dynasty and the Palestinians militias organizations are actually moving and relocate themselves mostly in the south part of Lebanon
Avi Melamed: in 1988. And then once again, in 1992, King Hussein of Jordan announced Jordan, is basically detaching its administrative relationship with the West Bank. With the exception of Jerusalem, or, to be more accurate, the Al-aqsa and Haram Sharif compound the administrative mechanism or apparatus that runs the Islamic one is called the Waqf.
Avi Melamed: It's basically an administrative apparatus that up to our times is actually financed and governed by Jordan, though there is a shadow, or there is a similar administration of work that is also run by the Palestinians in 1994 Jordan and Israel signed Peace Treaty.
Avi Melamed: And interesting enough in that Peace Treaty Article 9 of this Peace Treaty basically states very clearly that in every future conversation vis-a-vis, the status of Jerusalem. Jordan is the counterpart for this conversation this is something, this specific article fueled an enormous tension between Jordan and the Palestinians for obvious reasons.
Avi Melamed: In 1999, King Hussein died out of disease, and his son, King Abdullah Ii. Took power in 1999, and he is the monarch of Jordan up to our time.
Avi Melamed: When you look at the story of Jordan, I would say, roughly speaking, and this is something that we will elaborate with our distinguished guest educator. When you look at the story, you see, there are a couple of things that I would say characterize Jordan through its modern history. Ever since, basically its creation, 1st as trans Jordan emirate, and then as the Hashemite monarchy of Jordan.
Avi Melamed: First, st a lot of email challenges economically, environmentally, socially.
Avi Melamed: in more than once the monarchy find itself facing an external threats by regional powers. I mentioned before the story of, for example, Black September. We should also mention in that regard, for example, the threat that Jordan was facing from Syria during the time of Hafez Al-assad. There was a point
Avi Melamed: during the war that there was a threat of the Syrians to move and to occupy actually part of Jordan. Israel was interfering there to block
Avi Melamed: the Syrian threat on Jordan on the northern part of Jordan.
Avi Melamed: In the last couple of decades, particularly the last couple of years, the Iranian-backed axis of resistance that we talked about in different occasions present an increasing challenge to Jordan, particularly mainly due to the fact that Iranian-backed militias, together with Assad regime in the south part of Syria, were involved and are involved in smuggling of
Avi Melamed: weapons and narcotics to Jordan, basically at some point leading to the rise of a concept in the inner Jordanian discussion that is called the the Greater Jordan. So to speaking, a concept that basically says that Jordan has to
Avi Melamed: build some sort of like a buffer zone
Avi Melamed: in the southern part of Syria that will be baked or based upon 2 local components that rules in the south part of Syria and the Arab tribes in the south part of Syria. That is something that the Jordanian monarchy has been leading proactively during part of the time of the war in Syria.
Avi Melamed: and I think that one of the most significant aspects of the story of the Hashemite kingdom is the, I would say, the different tension within different features of identity, the Islamic one, the Nationalist statehood, one the Palestinian, one majority of the Jordanians, are Palestinians in their region, and the tribal one, the major pillar. In the early days of the trans-jordan.
Avi Melamed: the Emirate, and then Hashemite kingdom are the tribal, the Bedouin tribes that has been traditionally a major spine of of the Hashemite kingdom. Stability.
Avi Melamed: So these are kind of like some of the, you know, from a 60,000 foot sort of speaking features of the Hashimite monarchy in Jordan, and to further talk about these things. We are very honored shortly to be joined by our guest educator.
Avi Melamed: Before that we'll just mention that when you look at Jordan from the space, roughly speaking, and you see how strategically it is significant for the region. You see that Jordan actually sits on a on a major, 2 axis. One is north south, which basically connects, if you wish.
Avi Melamed: all the way Turkey, south north of Jordan, all the way down to the Arabian peninsula south of Jordan, a major significant land route, and then there is another one which is the East West corridor connecting Iraq.
Avi Melamed: crossing through Jordan and ending up in the end, if you wish, at Israel and the Mediterranean Sea. So from a geostrategic perspective and from geographical perspective, Jordan, the Hashemite kingdom of Jordan, is located in an enormously significant strategic location, which obviously adds another component to the very, I would say, multi-layer aspects of this monarchy and its role in in the Middle East.
Avi Melamed: So to further explore these issues and others related to Jordan, we are joined today by our guest. Educator is Mr. Mudar Zaharan.
Avi Melamed: Mr. Zaran is a Jordanian-palestinian politician living in exile. He heads the Jordanian opposition coalition.
Avi Melamed: He previously served as an economic specialist and assistance policy. Coordinator for the Us. Embassy in Amman
Avi Melamed: Zawan is a Phd. In political science the Arab-israeli conflict. Zawan has close working proximity with decision makers in key decision makers in Arab Gulf States as well as Israel and the Palestinian territories.
Avi Melamed: Mr. Zawan. Welcome to Itme fellowship program. Inside the Middle East voices from the Middle East about the Middle East. We are very honored to have you with us today.
Avi Melamed: So let me start with asking the following question.
Avi Melamed: and just connecting some of the things that we said right now in the context of what's going on right now in Jordan.
Avi Melamed: couple of days ago, the Jordanian Government announced, it has intercepted a terror plot that was carried out by a cell, that its members were affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood movement in Jordan.
Avi Melamed: There is an information arguing that those members of this cell were trained by Hamas, affiliated tractors in Lebanon.
Avi Melamed: and that event was portrayed. The event itself, and particularly the fact that the Jordanian Government announced it has banned the activity of the western of the Muslim Brotherhood in Jordan was viewed in Western circles as a dramatic development.
Avi Melamed: You have a different perspective about it.
Mudar: 1st of all, I'm glad to be here and talking to your colleagues and audience.
Mudar: Starting with what what happened over the over the past few days
Mudar: with the alleged Jordanian ban on the Muslim Brotherhood.
Mudar: It's not true, simple, it's not true.
Mudar: And this is a living example of how misleading the news headlines can be.
Mudar: Let's start with what happened. The King of Jordan and his Government
Mudar: announced that they have quote unquote
Mudar: quote, unquote, banned the Muslim Brotherhood Society.
Mudar: It's a so-called not-for-profit organization called the Muslim Brotherhood Society.
Mudar: and they also announced that they have banned all of its movement, took away all of its assets
Mudar: from the outside for the naive onlookers and the Western media.
Mudar: They thought that it is what it is. Muslim brotherhood got banned in Jordan.
Mudar: In reality
Mudar: the Muslim Brotherhood Society, which was association, which was banned, has been actually defunct for the past 5 years. Since 2020
Mudar: has not been. It has been closed instead. Another organization, called the Muslim Brotherhood Society versus Association is fully legal, fully functioning Jordan.
Mudar: that Muslim Brotherhood society also is connected to the Muslim Brotherhood political party.
Mudar: which is the Islamic action from party
Mudar: which is in the Parliament, and which which keeps a very close.
Mudar: actually one tie to the Hashima regime.
Mudar: If this by itself on itself is an example
Mudar: of how tricky the Hashimites have been and how good they have been at manipulating the media.
Mudar: I? It's it's only fair for me to say that these shenanigans would have worked 2025 years ago, but not in the age of
Mudar: today. Not the at least in the days of trump. You cannot influence decision makers in Washington, London, or Jerusalem by having a media clout
Mudar: in the old days that would have worked, but not today.
Mudar: The Hashimite regime and Jordan in Jordan
Mudar: and the Muslim brotherhood are allies.
Mudar: The mark. The Republican party is to President trump what the Lakode is to Netanyahu. They are their own party.
Mudar: Let me quote a few few words for you.
Mudar: King Hussein of Jordan, 1996, he said, quote unquote. Of course, code is
Mudar: the Muslim brotherhood is the Hashemite kingdoms States party.
Mudar: Now Bassam, Hadadim Jordan's Kings, minister of political reform. He's Christian by the way.
Mudar: in November 2,011, he said to Al Jazeera, the Muslim Brotherhood is a part of the Hashimat regime.
Mudar: Marwan Washer, Deputy, vice president of the Carnegie Instant endowment.
Mudar: a former former Jordanian ambassador to Israel and
Mudar: former deputy Prime Minister of Jordan Mawan washer.
Mudar: He tweeted online his speech to the Muslim Brotherhood
Mudar: in 2015, he told them.
Mudar: You have always come from the womb of the Hash United Kingdom.
Mudar: and I can give you countless examples. But the bottom line is the Jordanian Muslim brotherhood
Mudar: is actually controlled, dominated by the regime itself.
Mudar: and evidence of that are the words of Queen Rania herself
Mudar: when she was interviewed on the 3rd of November
Mudar: 2016, by Christian Aman Paul
Mudar: of the Cnn. She basically flirted with the Muslim Brotherhood and said how they were a legitimate organization, and
Mudar: they responded to her, the head of the Muslim Brotherhood, in a public official statement, thanking her for the for the words the list goes on, but this is where it stands. The former head of the Jordanian Muslim brotherhood.
Mudar: just 4 years ago, said the Hashemite kingdom knows his name is Abdullah Al-akale.
Mudar: he said. The Hashemite kingdom knows
Mudar: we have stood by the Hashemites at every juncture.
Mudar: Let's track back to 1970.
Mudar: The Muslim brotherhood stood by the Hashemite regime
Mudar: and declared, anyone dying fighting the Palestinian guerrillas is a Shahid is a martyr.
Mudar: Bottom line is this is where we stand. We need to have an aerial view to look from above and see what are the components moving in the area
Mudar: as is.
Avi Melamed: I would like at this point just a moment to make a pose, Mr. Zawan, and kind of like a little bit to push back on what you say.
Avi Melamed: because we got October 7th
Avi Melamed: and following October 7, th one of the major arenas in the Arab world for a very robust protest
Avi Melamed: that basically expressed not only support for Palestinians, but particularly for Hamas.
Avi Melamed: Jordan was one of these major states, and those protests were mostly arranged, orchestrated by the Islamic factors, including, as you said, the Islamic Action front party.
Avi Melamed: And those protests, basically at some point were kind of like putting the Hashemite monarchy in a very embarrassing situation because it was reported that they basically turned to the Hashemite monarchy in the kingdom and said, Open the borders with Israel, so we could go and fight and liberate. Gaza.
Mudar: Not so sorry.
Mudar: Okay, what's it?
Mudar: Absolute nonsense. Sorry, not you. But you.
Avi Melamed: No, no, I understand.
Mudar: Okay, the Muslim Action front party would never operate, would never take the streets, would never hold the protest without the full pre-approval of the Jordanian intelligence, which is the fearsome Mukhabarat.
Mudar: They would only do that with the Mukhabrat, because if they don't get the approval of the Muhabharat the Jordanian paramilitary police would crack down on them and basically beat them up and break up any any protest. So if you see a protest in Jordan, you need to know immediately that it's been pre-approved by the Mukhabharat.
Mudar: The Jordanian intelligence goes as far as pre-approved in what banners they hold, what slogans they use, so we all know. All of these protests have been pre-approved and pre-allowed and sustained by the Jordanian regime itself. In addition.
Mudar: the Jordanian media, which is very tightly controlled by the Muhabharat, by the Jordanian intelligence, has been calling and urging people to go to the protest.
Mudar: including the Jordanian State media itself, like a Ra'iv newspaper, a distor newspaper, and others controlled directly by the Jordanian Government. They have been inciting against Israel and calling for jihad.
Mudar: Now, who has been going down? We have.
Mudar: and we're going to get to that later. How many Palestinians are in Jordan? They are the majority.
Mudar: If you read an Embassy cable by the Us. Embassy in Jordan. Back in 2,006,
Mudar: you would see clear evidence that the Palestinians are above 95%. Every Pete above 95% of the population.
Mudar: So today, we have a population in Jordan in access of 12 million
Mudar: of those, at least 11 million and a half are Jordanian nationals
Mudar: of those at least 11 million easily are Palestinians. When the Muslim brotherhood holds a protest against Israel or against the Israeli embassy.
Mudar: Barely 1,000 people show up.
Mudar: What does that tell you? If if 5% of Palestinians show up to those protests, you should easily have half a million people, you barely get 1,000.
Mudar: There's even more than that. If you go to the Muslim Brotherhood in Jordan
Mudar: they call. They have their own Parliament or board of directors. It's called Majlis Ashura, the the Shura Council.
Mudar: the Shura Council. Most of the members and those are elected. They're elected by the majority of Muslim brotherhood members.
Mudar: Most of them are Jordanian, what you call so-called Bedouins, not Palestinians.
Mudar: Let's set the record clear.
Mudar: The Palestinian majority in Jordan
Mudar: is not exactly interested in Palestine or liberating Palestine, or having a war with Israel.
Mudar: Evidence of that is abundant, and the strongest evidence of that is a document by the Us. Embassy in Amman that was made public by Wikileaks. The cable reads clearly that the Palestinians in Jordan
Mudar: are not interested in the so-called right of return to Palestine. They are interested in receiving the civil rights in Jordan, and and I'm quoting the cable, they said they're the only ones we spoke to who seem to be interested in the in the right of return, and the Bedouin Jordanian leaders.
Mudar: the Palestinians have learned their lessons very well in Jordan.
Mudar: They they see the real enemy. The real enemy is the apartheid regime that's controlling Jordan
Mudar: Palestinians in Jordan, and we need to be clear, are in their country. They're not guests. They're not refugees.
Mudar: they are internally displaced people.
Mudar: Prior to 1948 there was the British mandate for Palestine.
Mudar: which you you generously exhibited, an image of earlier.
Mudar: It stretched from the Mediterranean all the way to Iraq with Jordan of today, making 78% of it.
Mudar: The Hashemite of kingdom of Jordan was not even established until 1946. So between 1920 and 1948, there was a Palestine, a British Palestine.
Mudar: and that British Palestine was actually
Mudar: both today's Israel. And today's Jordan.
Mudar: 78% of British backed Palestine is Jordan.
Mudar: the Palestinian tribes, the so-called Arab tribes. Because I don't. I don't. I don't believe that today's Palestinians are Arabs. I think the majority are not Arabs, but that said, That's a whole different subject.
Mudar: The so-called Arabs of Palestine. The tribes are distributed on both sides sides of the river. So you say the Bedouin tribes in Jordan.
Mudar: They all have Palestinian last names, Jarada, Majali, Damimi, and so forth so that we are. They are cousins, they know one another.
Mudar: so there was no real difference.
Mudar: In addition, the so-called Hashemite kingdom didn't have its own currency.
Mudar: The Hashimad kingdom depended on the British, Palestinian guinea guinea, which is Guinea, which is pound Palestinian pound.
Mudar: a country with no currency until 1951 that was Jordan. So even after Palestine no longer existed, they still depended on the British Palestinian pound.
Mudar: And it's the very same poem that read Philistine
Mudar: Palestine slash. Yet it's Israel, the land of Israel.
Mudar: So you can read Israel clearly on the same pound that the Hashemite kingdom used to depend on, and they didn't have their own passport.
Mudar: So-called Jordanians were still traveling with a British issued Palestinian passport until 1948. So this fake creation there's this country, you know this region the way the Britons and the colonizers created the whole region and set it up.
Mudar: There was a lot of fake creations.
Mudar: Some people argue well, the Palestinians are a fake creation.
Mudar: If you're going to start with that, then you're going to start calling out Arab countries one by one.
Mudar: because just 53 years ago there was never a country called United Arab Emirates. It was Oman.
Mudar: So you're gonna start denying United Arab Emirates existence because it wasn't there 53 years ago.
Mudar: The ingenious of the colonial power is they created?
Mudar: Why they created this whole mess, this whole Balagan.
Mudar: as they say in in Israel
Mudar: the Balogan. The mess was created deliberately and very shrewdly
Mudar: to secure that the area would remain unstable and subject to foreign interference, and even when they allowed
Mudar: partially for the Jewish State to exist and seek independence
Mudar: on in the Holy Land. It was only to a limit. So when you zoom in through the National
Mudar: British Archive files and communications, you get the feeling that the the main purpose of British officials
Mudar: was not to have any side defeating the other side.
Mudar: and not in a benevolent way. It's in a way which is still remains today, which is command and conquer.
Avi Melamed: So at this point I want. I want. I want to make yet another pose and kind of like try to to zoom in back to Jordan
Avi Melamed: and to take it to our days. Because you, you noticed, or you refer to the issue of the
Avi Melamed: the way you view the relationship between the Hashemite monarchy and the Muslim brotherhood. But I want to ask you about another significant thing internally in Jordan before we kind of like zoom out, and this is, can you reflect to us currently, what are the major inner challenges in Jordan and not talking about the political issues.
Mudar: Well, the major inner challenges are, whether we like it or not, are still political.
Mudar: If you're talking about the country, the country is mainly run by a very innovative population.
Mudar: the Palestinian majority in Jordan, along with their Bedouin brothers, they are dubbed, quote unquote the Jews of the Middle East.
Mudar: We have built the military, economic.
Mudar: educational, and health systems in Qatar, Kuwait, United Arab Emirates, and to an extent Saudi Arabia, 67 years ago, when they had none.
Mudar: We have even built the Palestinians even built the Kuwaiti Air Force.
Mudar: one of the earliest and most advanced Air Force at the time.
Mudar: so these the country is very vibrant, people are, and, you know, business oriented. At the same time we have a huge shortage of water
Mudar: the same time we have a very expensive royal family, like the royal family of Jordan. They live very lavishly, very extravagantly. You see them, you know, a quick walk to the visit to the Royal Auto Museum in Jordan, would give you an idea of how.
Mudar: how, how lavish the lifestyle of the Hashemite kingdom is with all those antique cars that they're throwing there to to rot instead of selling them on behalf of the people.
Mudar: That, said the biggest problem we, as Jordanians defined today, is our discontent with the royal family.
Mudar: and this is deeper than we all think, because the royal family in Jordan is very unique
Mudar: than most royal families in the region royal families in the region. Like, for example, the Al-sauds of Saudi Arabia, they have been controlling that region since 1730. So we're talking. The Saudi state is 3 century old, easily
Mudar: the Al Thani ruling Qatar. They've been ruling that area for 400 years.
Mudar: The Al-hayan rule in Abu Dhabi and united Arab Emirates. They have been there since Daulat, Ali, Arab, the Arabite state, which was 650 years ago. These people and Al-sabah of Kuwait. They have ruled for the past 620 years.
Mudar: so people are familiar only in Jordan. They have rulers of foreign.
Mudar: This is why the foreign rulers in Jordan have been
Mudar: enforcing an apartheid state on Jordan's majority, and I'm quoting here a an American Us. Cable.
Mudar: It's it for those who want to look it up on Wikileaks. The cable talks about the appointment of new Prime Minister.
Mudar: They said that the Hashemite kingdom.
Mudar: the Hashemite royal family is not Jordanian, and therefore they have always been scared of the majorities, or that the tribal majority takeover
Mudar: that made the Hashimite regime the most
Mudar: fragile regime in the region, and at the same time it has exhibited incredible resolve and survival. The regime survived unimaginable stuff.
Mudar: And there's a reason for that.
Mudar: The reason is very simple.
Mudar: The reason is, the Western establishment, until recently, until the past 15 years only
Mudar: has been very openly interested in keeping the status quo in the Middle East.
Mudar: the Arab Israeli conflict, just pretty much like
Mudar: many other conflicts like today. You look at the Ukraine Russia conflict. Some countries are openly invested in keeping the conflict for as long as possible.
Mudar: while, on the other hand, the Arab-israeli conflict was more dramatic. Because we've got Muslim versus Jew and the Holy Land involved all vengeance, holy books, Biblical stuff! Nothing is more dramatic to control the world with it. And here we lo and behold! The so-called Arab-israeli conflict has been used
Mudar: in every kind of conflict in the 20th and the 21st century Communists said, they want to liberate Palestine. Venezuela says it sympathizes with Palestine. Bin laden, said that literally said that he blew down 2 towers in New York because he wanted to help Palestine videos all over the place to watch
Mudar: fast forward till today.
Mudar: The dogma now has changed. They want to change the status quo. But before that it explains why the fragile, weak, poor Hashemite regime has survived
Mudar: in the military science. There's something called the point of gravity.
Mudar: I'll give you an example.
Mudar: The point of gravity of North America is the United Kingdom.
Mudar: If Britain falls, if Britain is occupied by a foreign power
Mudar: like Hitler almost did in in World War 2.
Mudar: The United States will be threatened.
Mudar: Part of gravity of the entire world is the Middle East.
Mudar: The point of gravity of the Middle East is the Levant.
Mudar: Iraq, part of Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Palestinian areas and Jordan.
Mudar: and the point of gravity of the Levant is Jordan. Therefore the stability of Jordan
Mudar: is key to sustaining the status quo. And here I want to quote what Winston Churchill said to King Hussein
Mudar: when they opponent King Hussein, as king.
Mudar: he told him. Winston Churchill, when he met him.
Mudar: your job is to float don't do anything else. So basically the harsh, you might as long as they're bare.
Mudar: The Arab-israeli conflict will never get solved.
Mudar: because you can never, ever solve the Arab-israeli conflict through any meaningful means by having a Palestinian state inside Israel.
Mudar: If you have a Palestinian state inside the West Bank.
Mudar: even if it becomes a friendly, secular state
Mudar: that Palestinian State will need an economic, political, and social access or exit point.
Mudar: so it will eventually become a burden to Israel.
Mudar: Therefore the only exit point is Jordan.
Mudar: and as long as the Hashemite kingdom is there is there they will never tolerate a Palestinian.
Mudar: a control or Palestinian expansion expansion.
Mudar: and this drives us back. Everything is connected.
Mudar: This drives us back into thinking of what happened in 1970, 1970. For 18 months
Mudar: Yasser Arafat's Plo. Stopped attacking Israeli borders because he was
Mudar: he. He had the ambition of controlling Jordan
Mudar: documents. Exhibit that Henry Kissinger, the US. Secretary of State
Mudar: thought that in White House documents he literally told Nixon that the Palestinian control over Jordan could lead into quote unquote a Palestinian settlement.
Mudar: Obviously Nixon disagreed, and eventually they had to import. The Britons helped King Hussein import
Mudar: the Pakistani army to butcher the Palestinians, and to get Arafat back. They kicked him out to Lebanon, and they did a number of the Palestinian civilians who had nothing to do with it, and, long story short, they made sure that the Palestinian.
Mudar: Cause would persist.
Mudar: Had Arafat controlled Jordan in 1970,
Mudar: we would have had a Palestinian state, a Palestinian state
Mudar: outside of Jordan outside of Israel, even if hostile.
Mudar: is a state, a problem on Israel's borders, a Palestinian state inside Israel
Mudar: west to the river, even if friendly, is a threat to Israel's stability.
Avi Melamed: So I want I want to. I want to to bring on to something you said, which was very interesting. You you have this analogy, talking about these gravity points, and you said that
Avi Melamed: Jordan is actually the gravity point of the Levant or the sham, as you mentioned before, and I want to ask. In that regard
Avi Melamed: there has been some significant dramatic developments, particularly in this area of the sham. Obviously, I'm referring to the weakening of what is called the axis of resistance, meaning the downfall of Bashar Al-assad rule in Syria.
Avi Melamed: and the the very turbulent situation in Iraq.
Avi Melamed: 2 major states that borders physically Jordan, and has an enormous significance in many different ways as far as Jordan is concerned. Can you evaluate what is what is the current and possibly impact of the development in Syria. In Iraq
Avi Melamed: vis-a-vis, the strategic location and role of Jordan.
Mudar: Well, you need to know where Jordan stands.
Mudar: The Hashemite kingdom of Jordan stands in the least expected places.
Mudar: Everyone, when you say the King of Jordan. They think America, Israel Peace Treaty. This is a Westernized guy. Well, I have to surprise your world.
Mudar: The King is openly aligned with the different axis. Who this is the axis the King is openly aligned with
Mudar: you. Can Google an article, a piece in the Jerusalem post by the renowned Israeli Arabist
Mudar: Lebanese Israeli professor named Eddie Cohen.
Mudar: Eddie Cohen brought a piece, I think, a few years ago. It's titled.
Mudar: It's official quote. It's official Jordan and Iran are now allies and coat.
Mudar: The connection between Jordan and Iran is beyond what you can imagine.
Mudar: and it's not new in Jordan King's book in Jordan King book his memoir.
Mudar: he post his picture with the Ayatollah, and he said that after 2,003 we realized Iran would be an important partner.
Mudar: You can check, check out the book and check. Check this for the self.
Mudar: This is not the King's fault. By the way, I'm not telling you the King is evil. Yes, I think the King is is a bad guy, but in this particular case it's not his fault.
Mudar: There has been a policy from the deep Western establishment, particularly visible under Bush, Jr.
Mudar: And his Vice President Cheney to empower Iran.
Mudar: I was witness. I held testimony. I was a witness
Mudar: with my own eyes to how the Bush Administration
Mudar: handed Iraq and its vast wealth to Iran in a golden platter.
Mudar: The system has been to empower Iran across the region. Then we had Obama empowering Iran with its nuclear deal, and you know, a huge tens of billions of dollars of worth, of Iran's assets and so forth. This is not a conspiracy theory.
Mudar: This is a conspiracy fact.
Mudar: Romsfeld said it in television. Barely, you know, 3 months before the war in Iraq.
Mudar: he said, quote unquote the Us. Secretary of Defense and the Bush. W. He said, when we enter Iraq we won't have a problem with the
Mudar: Sunni Shields. It's only the Sunnis.
Mudar: The US. Then did everything to empower Iran, and evidence of that is the Iran deal, and another evidence of that is, when Biden
Mudar: help rescued Iran with an 11 million power cost deal with Iraq.
Mudar: This was 3 years ago when the Iranian people were revolting against Iran. How does this connect to your question, how does this connect your question? Though.
Avi Melamed: Yeah.
Mudar: The the axis of resistance. Syria, Assad, Syria, Hezbollah, I. Ran.
Mudar: are all have all been tolerated, propped up by the West, and the king belongs to that axis.
Mudar: and again read Eddie Cohen's
Mudar: that the fact that that axis of resistance has been weakened. It's not only the King of Jordan who's in that axis? You will have some of the most surprising names, and you know I don't cut corners. I say academic. I say things as they are rather than what we want them to be.
Mudar: There are many several Arab countries who are in that resistance who claim to be moderates.
Mudar: Example of this is Egypt.
Mudar: people would say, how does it affect Jordan to answer your question? A weakening accents of resistance affects the Hashemite kingdom badly, and makes the king weaker because he's made his bed with Qatar and other countries who are in that camp. In addition, the fact that Assad was toppled Assad right before he was toppled. People, including myself, thought of him as invincible.
Mudar: This guy survived 14 years of armed resistance. He survived and remained President. Therefore there's no way. Only God can remove him from his throne. And it happened so what does this mean for Jordanians
Mudar: so, and to add, you know, to add insult to injury to the King.
Mudar: He was very close to Assad. He was welcoming Assad, publicly united Arab Emirates would welcome Assad just one week before he was toppled. Even less than that 5 days.
Mudar: So he was, you know, hearty party with Assad
Mudar: and Assad fills. So everyone in Jordan. And you can read that on social media. They're thinking, if Assad is gone, why not us?
Mudar: Why can't we just get rid of the King? Maybe it's the King's time.
Mudar: The King, in my very well-informed opinion has never been fragile in his life.
Mudar: and for the lack of a better term.
Mudar: the fat lady has not sung yet in Jordan
Mudar: you should expect to see changes in Jordan and the regime, at least in the point of view of people
Mudar: and the Middle East.
Mudar: who are decision makers. They are not convinced that he's going to stick around for too long.
Mudar: That's not.
Avi Melamed: I want to ask you, and kind of like, and that will lead to the point of the discussion with the students. First, st I want to say that I can think of many people that will have a very different perspectives about your perspectives. But I found your perspectives interesting because one of the things that we are bringing is deliberately to bring voices from the region
Avi Melamed: that are, you know, some of them are absent from the Western discussion, so in that regard, I'm very appreciative of what you say in the context of the final part of your analysis.
Avi Melamed: Where do you see the Hashemite kingdom of Jordan is going to, and it seems to me like that you are saying that this is the the last King of Jordan, and basically assuming that's what you're saying. My question is.
Avi Melamed: so what's going to be there.
Mudar: Okay, Jordan. I can assure you that this is the Hashemath King, not because I wish for him to be the Hashemite king, or because I want him to be the Hashemat king.
Mudar: The Haskemat regime is fragile.
Mudar: the Hashumite regime, just like the renowned Egyptian analyst. He's dead now, Mohammad Hassanin Heikal.
Mudar: he said. The Hashemite regime is a throne floating in the air, it could easily fall.
Mudar: The only reason the Hashemite regime was kept in its place
Mudar: is because the Western Powers chose for it to be
Mudar: right now. The Hashemite regime has turned into a burden rather than a friend.
Mudar: and I can. We don't have the time to talk. Why, both the Us. And Israel have received a lot of trouble coming from the Hashemites end.
Mudar: Let's not forget the King's personal friend, Ahmad El Edwan, a Parliament member who was caught smuggling deadly weapons into Israel into the terrorist hands. This was a big, big scandal.
Mudar: and which you can always Google with that said.
Mudar: let's just examine that the what the Western forces who kept this regime alive all that time.
Mudar: Let's just examine what they want. Now.
Mudar: what they want is, most of you are not paying attention to the most dangerous threat.
Mudar: Faith in the West and Israel at the time
Mudar: when you talk about threats to the West. Most of the so-called think tanks, so-called thinkers, and sadly, some academics would tell you. Well, Islam is the biggest problem facing the west. No
Mudar: Islam in its most radical form, bin Laden and others. What can they do?
Mudar: They can butcher 1,200 Israelis in one day, rape the woman and burn the children alive. Yes.
Mudar: they can knock down 2 towers in New York. Yes.
Mudar: it's horrendous what the Muslim terrorists can do.
Mudar: but they can never defeat the West.
Mudar: On the other hand, you have a very nice looking, well-dressed, well-spoken enemy.
Mudar: who could bring the West down easily.
Mudar: That enemy has teeth, thanks males
Mudar: and has money to burn. That enemy is China.
Mudar: China has been controlling States in the Middle East like crazy.
Mudar: Just 4 months ago I was in Haifa Israel.
Mudar: you would see a a landing dock at Haifa seaport, which is full with vehicles full of merchandise, and one next to it that's totally empty. And I asked an Israeli officer who was with me. I told him, why don't you? Why aren't you using the other one?
Mudar: He told me well, because it belongs to China.
Mudar: China has been like Pac-man swallowing one piece after another in the Middle East, and we don't have the time to talk about it. So right now the West is facing a very formidable enemy.
Avi Melamed: But I'm asking about Jordan. Where is Jordan?
Mudar: Oh, everything is connected. Sir
Mudar: Jordan is a part of the apparatus which America needs right now in order to be able to confront China.
Mudar: and the only way to confront China is to stabilize the Middle East because you cannot go potentially, have an economic and military confrontation with the Chinese. God forbid this would happen, but it could be if you don't have the Middle East Stable.
Mudar: and in order to stabilize the Middle East, the only method to do it. And this is information, not theory, not my opinion, is to end the Arab-israeli conflict, and the only way to end the Arab-israeli conflict is to give the Palestinians their country, and the only country that you can give to the Palestinians is a country called Eastern Palestine. Slash Jordan.
Mudar: Jordan is Palestine is the new religion in 3 major capitals, Washington, London, and Jerusalem. Until then, until a Palestinian President is in Jordan, who's secular and caught by the throat
Mudar: to keep the peace with Israel. We will never know peace. That said, I, do not see how the Hasheimites will be able
Mudar: to confront the tsunami with a very hateful population that hates them, and a very, very drowning economy. In my opinion I can quote and to end my talk, I can quote the former Israeli, deputy, head of the deputy chief of staff, deputy commander, chief of staff of the Israeli army, general Naba, in 2,004, he said, the King of Jordan is the last king.
Avi Melamed: Well, so that is, I would say, a very interesting prediction. I would say it will be, of course, something that we could put to the test of time. But actually, what you're saying is that you think that Jordan at some point is going to become the Palestinian State?
Avi Melamed: Obviously, again. It's a prediction that opens for the test of time. At this point I would like to 1st thank you for your insights and perspectives, and I would like to invite our fellows to come forward with questions, please.
Avi Melamed: Yeah. And so, Aaliyah, go ahead. And then Brooklyn.
Aliya Zigman: Hi, thank you so much for speaking. It's an honor to hear you. I had a question kind of in relation to the last part that you said, because if Jordan is
Aliya Zigman: like we'll be Palestinian, and that's how you believe, like we won't have peace until then. But then, previously, you said that, like the Palestinian majority, like the Palestinians in Jordan like, are not interested in liberating Palestine like they are more concerned with the like apartheid within Jordan. I'm just curious how like how these 2 conflate.
Aliya Zigman: and if I don't know what the question is, but it just seems a little contradictory.
Mudar: How is it contradictory?
Aliya Zigman: Because you say that, like the Palestinians in Jordan, are not really interested in like the liberating of Palestine, they.
Mudar: And they're not interested in fighting Israel and liberating Palestine, but they're interested in securing. And I'm quoting their Us. Embassy in a month interested in securing civil rights and their own rights in Jordan, which under this king they don't have
Mudar: once they have it, they're not. And I'm quoting the cable. They're not interested in the so-called right of return vis-a-vis, the Palestinian cause.
Aliya Zigman: So then my question, I guess, is how, if they're not interested right currently in the right of return. And and I wrote this down like they're not refugees, but they're internally displaced people. This is your language.
Aliya Zigman: then wouldn't.
Aliya Zigman: Why would it have to be a Palestinian like
Aliya Zigman: country like Jordan beak, Palestinian. If they're not interested in that, like currently, I.
Mudar: This is not branding. This is not focusing on the brand or the label. You can call it a banana. It's still, it's still the Palestinian State, because the majority over 95% are Palestinian.
Mudar: The businesses land ownership is Palestinian. It's 78% of British mandate Palestine. So therefore it's a duck that it's a Palestinian duck that squeaks, walks, and talks like a duck from Palestine. So it is Palestine. It doesn't matter what we call it, I, personally would still call it Jordan. I don't want to change the name, but it is a Palestinian state, and this is the question.
Mudar: A Palestinian state in Jordan under the right kind of person who would still be under control. We can't trust good intentions in the Middle East at all.
Mudar: We do want to do. Oslo, again.
Mudar: That said
Mudar: would end the right of return problem. The millions of Palestinians who are displaced in Gaza today in Lebanon and Syria will have the right to get home to Palestine or Jordan, which is Jordan, and allow me to add Article number 3 of Amendment number 3 of the article number 3. Sorry article number 3, Citizenship Act of Jordan, 1950, or
Mudar: 54. All Palestinians are born natural Jordanians, unless they belong to the Jewish faith.
Mudar: So all Gazans are Jordanians.
Aliya Zigman: Interesting.
Avi Melamed: That's an interesting perspective. Thank you, Brooklyn.
Brooklyn Tory (she/her): I think I, towards the beginning you mentioned something along the lines of a majority of Palestinians. Are not Arab. Could you elaborate on what you meant by that.
Mudar: Well, I definitely can.
Mudar: Well, there is a study. There is a DNA study of Palestinians by University of Hadassah.
Mudar: Well, quite a renowned university in Israel, not the top to be honest, but it's a very good university school in Israel.
Mudar: They they took 56, something, 560, something Palestinians. So in the world of science it's good enough.
Mudar: good enough to generalize the findings, but not exactly the best sample. It could have been 2,000 for much better results. It turns out 82% of Palestinians were Jewish
Mudar: Palestine. Whether you and I like it or not, was a Palestinian majority country until the late 18 hundreds. This is the forgotten Nakba, the Nakba which you everyone chooses to forget, including Jews and Israelis of today. They want to drop the fact that most Palestinians, or at least a huge number of them, were Jews, until they were forced to convert under the Ottomans.
Mudar: Let me tell you, in a in a nutshell the story of my area. My home village is called Tal Hazorah Zorah, Sara, which is opposite to Beth Shemesh in Israel.
Mudar: My wife is from Bethjamesh.
Mudar: Both our villages were strictly Jewish, and followed Jewish laws, everything
Mudar: Jewish until the late 18 hundreds, when the Ottomans got scared that the Jews might want to take over the land.
Mudar: so they forced us to either pay huge taxes or move to Damascus, particularly Aleppo and Damascus, or convert.
Mudar: Suddenly everyone became Muslim.
Mudar: 8 collective villages they're called Kural Arkub, the villages of Arkup.
Mudar: They were all. Every single one of them was Jewish. Until and today we still keep. You know, Jewish traditions. Example is circumcision of children. On the 8th day
Mudar: the average Arab would circumcise at age 6, 7, 8, 1012 year old Palestinians are the only Arabs who so-called Arabs who circumcised children on the 8th day of their birth. Of course males list goes on and on, but this is not a factor. Today, I mean.
Mudar: I'll I'll end. I'll end my answer. With this
Mudar: there was one of the most horrifying massacres in Tel Aviv
Mudar: in which 2 cousins from Maqambre family, Maqambre family, they took over a whole cafe and killed a group of Israelis. That was a 6, I think, 7, 8 years ago.
Mudar: Those 2 cousins from the Mahamra family are Jewish.
Mudar: It's known that those 2 Palestinian kids, the family Mahamra, is absolutely Jewish, and they have been Jewish since King David. So it's the DNA is non-relevant. But I can say with pride, I am incredibly proud that my Jewish heritage of my Jewish heritage, and I'm very proud that Palestinians, the smartest people in the Middle East, are Jewish, at least in DNA.
Avi Melamed: That's a very interesting perspective. I'm sure that many people will be surprised to hear that you, by the way, you also define yourself as a Jordanian Palestinian.
Mudar: Absolutely. I'm Jordanian. Yeah.
Avi Melamed: Thank you. Miranda.
Miranda Ruzinsky: Hi, thank you for your really really interesting perspectives.
Miranda Ruzinsky: I kind of have a broader question. Can you describe the apartheid state in Jordan. So could you talk about how the royal family has been very good at survival.
Miranda Ruzinsky: and I understand that a state monopoly on control and repression is a big part of maintaining a kind of state like that. So can you describe that for me?
Mudar: The apartheid regime in Jordan is well documented and very well ignored.
Mudar: The, you know, while everyone is marching against Jews and Israelis, and telling the Israelis how they should stop being, quote unquote an apartheid state in Israel. Everyone overlooks the real apartheid state, which is Jordan
Mudar: in Jordan. The 1st question when you fill in the application is.
Mudar: what's your heritage? Where are you originally from? Whether you go into
Mudar: report your car stolen, or whether you're going to apply for health care whether, wherever you're going to go. The 1st question in the application, where are you originally from?
Mudar: So that works for them for 50 years. And now, because, you know, people who were born 50 years ago, and now their children are saying my dad was born in Amman, they said. Where was your grandfather born?
Mudar: And then they changed the question into why, where was your 4th grandfather born to know where you went? So if the answer is Palestine, Palestinian, or today's Israel.
Mudar: You're banned from government jobs. You're banned from military jobs. You're banned from state jobs of any form. You're banned from taking contracts with the Government. You're banned from applying for Government assistantship. You're banned from opening more than one bank account. Unless you get the permission. You're banned from many other things, and this is where my life changed. What's the name? Again, Miranda?
Mudar: Let me tell you a very quick story, which which has eaten on my heart for the rest of my life, you know, still living with it.
Mudar: I was 15 years old.
Mudar: and you know the Palestinians in Jonah are very, very prosperous, very smart, pretty much like Jews
Mudar: and the Bedouins and the non-palestinians who work for the Government for the State. Can you still hear me, guys?
Avi Melamed: This is.
Mudar: Okay, so
Mudar: I'm with my dad. 15 year old. He's driving a brand new Mercedes 500 sel. At those days. That car was $120,000 at those days. That that's a lot of money.
Mudar: and you know a Jordanian police officer, very junior officer. He stops my dad.
Mudar: and starts insulting him for no reason. Maybe he didn't like the fact that this Palestinian is driving a very fancy car, and I saw him, you know, with his fingers pushing my dad in the chest.
Mudar: and it was very humiliating for me as a child, and I told my dad we should report him.
Mudar: and he, my dad, told me word for word. Son, we're Palestinians.
Mudar: We can't report anybody.
Mudar: So this is where my life has changed that particular event. It showed me that no matter how much money you have in Jordan, you are still a subhuman, and let me tell you what an Israeli military intelligence officer
Mudar: who's American, who's still alive. He's 75 year old now, when we met in Jerusalem in 2014, and I'm quoting a very strong word he used, he said. Mudah, we know Jordan is Hashemites and Palestinian slaves
Mudar: in Jordan. Palestinians are slaves, and this is why I've identified the real enemy in this case my enemy has never been Jews and never been. Israel.
Mudar: Israel is fighting with me over the land.
Mudar: If we settle that land problem we're done. The Hashmites want to enslave me, and so they have for more than 76 years now.
Avi Melamed: Miles.
Miles Isaacs: It was also a pleasure to listen to you, and I have a whole host of questions to ask, but
Miles Isaacs: I just wanted to clarify. Instead of asking a question. Perhaps I can tease a question out of this.
Miles Isaacs: You said that
Miles Isaacs: you said that there is a more than national, a 90% minimum Palestinian
Miles Isaacs: Nash ethnicity within Jordan. Is that correct?
Mudar: Yes.
Miles Isaacs: And then there's about the the rest is 10% Jordanian.
Miles Isaacs: So there's a national and ethnic identity all in the same country.
Miles Isaacs: So you have a you have a majority that is not.
Miles Isaacs: that does not share the country's nationality and goes against it with its ethnic
Miles Isaacs: now with its ethnicity. So you have a country that's made up of nearly completely, not where the
Miles Isaacs: people in that country should come from. So why why is
Miles Isaacs: why is there so much pushback
Miles Isaacs: to not have a Palestinian state within Jordan.
Mudar: Okay, the pushback comes from the Hashemite royal family, because if they give the Palestinians even 50% of their rights.
Mudar: there will be no more hashemized rule in Jordan
Mudar: and the Hashima School in Jordan, and I'm I can quote a Us a Uk Foreign Office and cable
Mudar: by Secretary Bevin in 1948 September of 1948. He said that it would be beneficial in Jordan's economics to get the Palestinian population. So in those countries, with no democracy. A population is like a milking cow. They pay taxes, they make you richer when you're the ruler. On the other hand, the ones who are totally against it
Mudar: are the Western governments who have done very, very, very well under the Arab-israeli conflict.
Mudar: Example of that one of the Key countries who are totally opposed to acknowledging Jordan's Palestinian identity. Is Germany.
Mudar: Germany has a lot of vested interest with both Iran and Jordan. And yes, I, said Iran, and waited to get more details about
Mudar: the Iranian nuclear program, and where the parts came from.
Miles Isaacs: And china.
Mudar: This is going to be in the news in the foreseen future. But that said
Mudar: most Europeans would like to keep control in the Middle East through this bogus conflict. As for identity, I want to show you that the so-called 10% Bedouins, they just have the same identity. There's a myth. There was never a Jordanian
Mudar: state, never a Jordanian statehood, never a Palestine, there was never a Palestine, there was never a Jordan, there was never a Lebanon there was never a there was never a united Arab Emirates, there was never a Belgium. These are all fake creations which we should all transcend.
Miles Isaacs: Who is Jordanian.
Mudar: Anyone just like what we seek him as a state of citizenship.
Mudar: Anyone who's Jordanian National is a Jordanian. If you're talking about the culture, the food, the music.
Mudar: the dress code is all Palestinian.
Mudar: even the so-called Bedouins eat our food and look and dress exactly like we do of, you know national costumes and so forth.
Mudar: So there's not what you call a particular Jordanian identity. It doesn't exist.
Avi Melamed: Thank you, more questions.
Miles Isaacs: I mean, I have a lot more from from that. The last bits of the
Miles Isaacs: of that answer. How long, how long do we have left.
Avi Melamed: Like another. We have, like another 5 min.
Miles Isaacs: Okay.
Miles Isaacs: okay, I'll ask one more, since no one else has put their hand up. But there's someone else who I know at my university who?
Mudar: Which university is yours.
Miles Isaacs: King's College, London.
Miles Isaacs: Okay. Kings college. Yeah.
Miles Isaacs: Whoa!
Miles Isaacs: What's the laughter.
Mudar: I've got. Some of my students are doing masters there. Now. Yeah.
Miles Isaacs: Yeah, who? Because I'm gonna mention a Jordanian Palestinian.
Mudar: Okay, you can. You can use the 1st name.
Miles Isaacs: Mahmoud.
Mudar: Okay. Nice. Go ahead.
Miles Isaacs: Do you know him?
Mudar: No comment. But go ahead. Yeah, yeah.
Miles Isaacs: I'm not going to answer my ask my question then. No, no, so
Miles Isaacs: I've had many a conversations with him about the conflict, and he and he
Miles Isaacs: I don't want to start throwing ad hominems, but he continually tells me that the land is Arab land.
Miles Isaacs: and he maintains his Palestinian identity whilst maintaining his Jordanian identity, and it struggles me how he can
Miles Isaacs: conflate the the 2
Miles Isaacs: being Jordanian whilst maintaining his Palestinian nationality, whilst advocating for the idea that the land is Arab land, and it's quite confusing. I don't know if there's
Miles Isaacs: potentially anything that you can say off this one individual.
Mudar: It seems that, mister. It seems that Mister Mahmoud is very confused.
Miles Isaacs: So.
Mudar: Hope that the kings would teach him something different about the fact that there has been injustice taking place in 1948.
Mudar: The injustice. This is the thing. This is when I talk to both
Mudar: Palestinians and Jews. I want to remind both of the most forgetting fact
Mudar: that we both have done quiet a number on one another.
Mudar: You would talk to you a Palestinian. They would mention massacres committed by, you know, Jewish militias.
Mudar: I can count for them many more massacres committed by Arab militias at the same time.
Mudar: which included the whole butchery of Jews in Hebron in 1929. And this is, you know, a Muslim man from Hebron told me he was a child. He was 5 years old then.
Mudar: and he told me how you know, for unknown reason. He saw his Jewish neighbors getting killed.
Mudar: He's Muslim, and he doesn't understand why the boy he was playing with
Mudar: okay was getting killed in front of his eyes.
Mudar: This is, he told me, my childhood friend, someone I used to go to the neighbors to play with him outside, and suddenly the whole family was got killed.
Mudar: so we did a number on one another. The injustice exceeded the limit to the point where 680,000 so-called Arab Palestinians left Israel upon Israel's independence.
Mudar: and they were denied the right of return.
Mudar: So this is where the whole problem stems, you know. But
Mudar: would that call things by their own name. 850,000 Jews were kicked out of Arab countries. If you want to return 650,000, and their descendants, how about you also guarantee the return of 850,000 Jews, which who not only left with their countries their wealth was confiscated.
Mudar: One of the Key, one of the 1st chain store chain, you know. Wholesale retailers.
Mudar: Fancy retailers in in the Middle East was Omar Afandi, Omar Afandi, Google. It
Mudar: Omar Afandi is, was established in Egypt by Jews from Czechoslovakia
Mudar: it's confiscated, and the Egyptian State took ownership of it, and eventually sold it to an Arab Gulf State.
Mudar: So here's an example of the injustice. So you cannot put the toothpaste back into the tube. We need to accept where we stand today, and we need to move forward, because I don't want
Mudar: my son killing you in the future because you both disagree on whose God is nicer. This is stupid. It's about time we move forward.
Mudar: and we will make it move forward. Watch and remember that Mudaz Iran was talking to you someday about these things.
Mudar: You'll remember when you see them happening before your eyes. The Arab-israeli conflict is dying.
Mudar: and it's gonna die in the least expected ways.
Avi Melamed: I think that this is a very, I would say powerful statement. To conclude this session I definitely would say that you brought some very non-regular, I would say perspectives and observations. And again, we want to thank you for.
Avi Melamed: you know, giving a great example of different voices from the region. Maybe some of those voices, or the insights that you have will be viewed as a controversial in wider perspectives. But I think it was very interesting
Avi Melamed: to hear your insights and your perspective. So I want to thank you very much for that. I want to take the fellow for participating, and I would like to wish you all a very good week. Take care, be well, thank you very much, and goodbye bye, bye.
Brooklyn Tory (she/her): Thank you so much.
Miles Isaacs: Thank you very much.